1969 L-code sportsroof

[rainingbells]

Jeez. I guess I need to do the obligatory intro, instead of stalling like I've been doing the last couple weeks.

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/project1969-002front.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/project1969-004trunk.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/project1969-005quarter.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/project1969-006side.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/project1969-011under.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/project1969-012under.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/project1969-013under.jpg

These are the pre-purchase pics I took. It is now mine and actually in my garage.

So for $1500 I got this, and pretty much all the parts inside and out, viable for reuse or not. All the glass is good, except for the front windshield which was broken. The floors are almost all rusted out, along with the trunk. Some blasting had already been started by the previous owner, who had it ranked third behind two other project cars, and with a baby on the way needed to thin things out. Two different 351W's, both of which need work, along with three transmissions, one of which actually came out of the same car (not this one) as the better of the two engines, an engine stand, and an aftermarket under dash AC, even though it is a factory air car.

Aside from the pans and the punch-throughs, it really is pretty much all surface rust. Frame is straight. Generally looks FAR worse than it actually is. Though there is still a metric ton of stuff needs being done to turn this car into the automatic daily driver that will eventually replace my standard GT (which will still be driven on good days, but eventually be passed on to my daughter) as my left knee continues to disintegrate.

Wanted a `69 fastback for years, but I've never been "car guy". I was "troubled artist guy" or "gotta always do things the hard way guy". Never learned cars growing up, but could usually fix mechanical and electronic things even if I couldn't tell you what the parts were called, and only been learning automotive things here and there as my `05 GT has had issues pop up. So since the printing industry has taken a header along with everything else and I got laid off (no need for press operators when everyone cuts back their printing budgets), I've taken the opportunity to go back to college at 35 for a degree in automotive technologies. Learn all that stuff I don't know, and hopefully start a job in a field that's a little more stable than printing. Or at least be able to avoid labor costs on the family cars and correctly fix things myself. So I'm just about halfway through my first semester, soon to wrap up Auto Body I and Automatic Transmissions & Transaxles and start Engine Repair & Testing.

I have no compressor, no air tools, no MIG welder. But I do have my Ospho, a hand sander, a few cans of primer...I'm completely out of my league, here.

But I have at least one guy from my Auto Trans course wanting to jump in in exchange for helping him on his project when he gets it, and a guy (the son-in-law of a former co-worker) who has rebuilt like 2 SN95s, 3 Fox bodies, and a 1966 (the last with his dad, recently), along with a kid who use to work under me, previously had an SN95II Cobra and now has a G8 GT, all willing to lend a hand to get this old girl back together and on the road.

She ain't gonna be proper-like. She's going to be a ground up automotive reflection of me. I know which spoon and fork to use for which course of the meal when you have upscale guests like company heads and state governors; I know correct grammar thanks to my mother the English Major. Doesn't always mean I follow through with either. Well-educated, but not civilized. Goal is to have her solid and running, not so much correct. I want modern upgrades, and I want to know that if my wife takes her out, or I go out with the wife and the kids, they're going to be fairly well safe. Disks, car PC, digital gauges, no big rims w/skinny tires.

Yeah, I don't know how to approach a thing outside of jumping into the deep end. So, sounds like fun. I'm in.

And I appreciate any input you folks have.

[Wade]

all I can say is WOW, you are a brave man for taking on such a project without any prior experience. But I can identify with that. I tend to be all or nothing. Years ago when I decided to do some overnight hiking trips, without any prior experience, I spent 3 weeks hiking in the back country of the Denali Wilderness. Another year I decided to go on a solo bicycle tour without any prior experience, so I flew to key west and rode a bicycle to Alaska. The way I figure it, I may only do this thing one time so why not go all out. That's what I see in your car, an all out, very extensive restoration process.

I took Auto Body Repair as a 2 year course during my last 2 years in high school. I thought it was great fun, and some folks brought their own cars through the shop to be worked on. That would save a lot of money if you could have some work done at the school. I would be careful as to who I would let learn on my car though. You will want nothing but the best work done, you will have to live with it and will want it done right the first time.

Are you going to put it back to factory concours or modified?

I like factory correct cars but in your case I would probably make some mods, especially with the engine. What about a clone car like a Boss 302 clone car?

Will you go with an AT or MT?

Was that an Acapulco blue car? I can see some blue areas on it.

What kind of rearend is that under it?

looking forward to watching your project :)

[rainingbells]

all I can say is WOW, you are a brave man for taking on such a project without any prior experience. But I can identify with that. I tend to be all or nothing. That's what I see in your car, an all out, very extensive restoration process.

Exactly. When I went into printing a few years back I had no prior experience. I did warehouse work before that, unloading trucks, frequently by hand, which is kind of amusing if you actually LOOK at me (my avatar is me, so...see that, all 6'4" and only a 130lbs. unloading a tractor trailer full of TVs by hand for a 12+ hour shift, and being a stock crew chief on top of it all). I like to learn a thing from the inside out. I actually do indie comics on the side for fun. That's my real hobby. Being that they're indies, probably no one has ever heard of any of them. But I started writing, and then wanted to understand what I was asking of the pencillers, so I taught myself to draw, and then I found an inker and he taught me how to ink and later how to letter, and between those last two a friend who did color work for Marvel, DC, and Image Comics taught me how to do computer colors. Eventually I wanted to learn the OTHER side of it and I found a printing job, and learned digitial printing, along with 2-color, 6-color, and 10-color printing presses.

That's just my nature. When I want to learn a thing, I want to learn ALL of it. I may not be the best, but I know the thing to the best of my abilities. I love knowledge and experience.

But I gotta be honest, even with the helping hands, this scares this crap out of me. :huh:

But I've taken owenership of it, it's sitting in the next room over, so I'm in. Already working on the quarters, taking it down to metal so I get a good idea of what I actually have and what needs being done. Where there's filler and where there isn't. I'm sanding it down and Ospho'ing the hell out of everything that's not going to be immediately cut out.

I took Auto Body Repair as a 2 year course during my last 2 years in high school. I thought it was great fun, and some folks brought their own cars through the shop to be worked on. That would save a lot of money if you could have some work done at the school. I would be careful as to who I would let learn on my car though. You will want nothing but the best work done, you will have to live with it and will want it done right the first time.

I'm almost done with Auto Body I, which handles hammer & dolly shaping, MIG welding basics, filler, all the way up through primer. The college doesn't have insurance for paint, or the proper set up, but they got a paint booth donated from a company that did boats, it's like 19' high x 40' long, but they have to get it to the school and have it certified before they can start Auto Body II. The teacher figures in the next semester or two, and being all art-like, I think auto body/custom work & paint is going to be what I really want to do. In the meantime I can shape her out and primer her until they get that set up in place in a year or so. And if not, the buddy's son-in-law I mentioned, he has a family member who does paint and body who might be able to give me a hand with the finish.

Talking about working on it at school, in my automatic transmission class, we were able to bring in our own transmissions (though I didn't have this car at the time to take advantage of that). I'm hoping the engine overhaul class will be like that as well and I can bring in the better of the two 351's and work on it there to get it cleaned and running. Take advantage of the tools and having one or two extra pairs of hands on my "team", if it's like the auto trans class, to help work on it. Then I just have to buy parts.

Are you going to put it back to factory concours or modified?

Restomod. Oldschool on the outside, newschool under cover. Upgrades and all. This will replace my 2005 GT as a daily driver. The stick GT will go in the garage and become a weekend warrior, eventually being handed off to my daughter...when she pries it from my cold dead hands. My eldest, my son, wants a 71-73 fastback.

I like factory correct cars but in your case I would probably make some mods, especially with the engine. What about a clone car like a Boss 302 clone car?

Yeah, it's an L-code, which meant it originally had a 250ci straight sixer.

But don't tempt me. The Boss Mustang is my holy grail. When I saw the news about the new Boss 302R I told my wife I was setting up a seperate savings account for a downpayment just in case they came out with a new street legal Boss 302 in the next couple years. Just the same, for as much as I want to have a Boss, I've thought about a clone and I'd feel really strange having a car sporting such specific ID if it wasn't actually such an animal. It's not VIN'ed as a Boss or a Mach or a Shelby (I don't care about the Shelby's as much as the Bosses and the Machs), slapping those badges on it just seems...odd. I have absolutely no problem with people owning clones, but I think I have a hang-up that would prevent me from owning one.

I HAVE considered, LATER, a Boss 302 crate engine from Ford Racing, and doing the striping and putting "Boss 302" and then in smaller letters beneath "powered", but we'll see. Something to put the name on there, but at the same time, to seperate it from legitimately VIN'ed Bosses. And I've also thouht about running that 351W in it for a few years until some of those 3.7L 300HP new 2011 sixers hit the salvage yards and using one of those to make it a proper sixer again, with enough HP to whoop my GT...and not horrible MPG to boot (though I expect to lose a few just on aerodynamics alone).

Superficially, I've also considered doing a mix of 1970 Boss and Mach 1 striping with none of the name plates, just my own artistic flair to fill in the blanks, but we'll see. Right now I'm honestly thinking more about just getting the body straight and the rust cleared. I'm TRYING not to think too far ahead (though obviously I've done that somewhat).

Will you go with an AT or MT?

AT. Preferably AOD just because of the MPG savings on the interstate. But my left knee is going, which is why I will likely make this an AT daily driver, for when I can't drive my GT. You know how it works, you wreck your knees, they never get better. All you can do is baby them in hopes they fold later rather than sooner.

Was that an Acapulco blue car? I can see some blue areas on it.

Yes it was. Though I'm seriously debating the blue. I'm a member of the Black Mustang Club for my GT, but I don't know that it's going to be black, either. Maybe one of the grabber colors for the overall body, green or orange, but I am also extraordinarily partial to the entirely non-Ford color of purple.

What kind of rearend is that under it?

I'm honestly not certain. Like I said, though, the car was originally just a 250ci sixer. Second tier up from base, with factory air, so unless any of the previous owners did anything special to it, it's likely stock.

looking forward to watching your project :)

You and me both, Wade. You and me both.... :lol:

[Pakrat]

Welcome aboard, you certainly came to the right place. There are lots of Mustang forums out there but this is by far one of the most friendly and you'll never get an answer like "I don't know about your car but on my 65' it's like this". We have projects and owners here at pretty much every level you can imagine and we can provide you with everything you'll need.

Good luck!

[rainingbells]

Which I appreciate greatly, Pakrat. Thank you. I've been browsing the threads, looking at the other cars, marveling at what's being done, getting ideas, and having a general looksee, for the purposes of comparison. That way I can get an idea of how the car was supposed to be, how things are supposed to go together, and what kinds of modifications and barnyard patchwork has been done to it in the past.

Like art. A realistic style Vs. a more cartoony one. All are viable, but before you run off doing something cartoony, you should know how a thing is SUPPOSED to look before you simplify and stylize. Know the rules before you break them. And I look at these cars as art.

Potentially very fast art.

So in the meantime, as I'm learning things, it's all about about trying to get rid of the rust so I have a good foundation, and trying to lay out a plan of attack when it comes to the actual rebuild. I'm not sure if that's the best approach, but given that I don't have a lot of the equipment at the moment, I'm going to be out there doing what I can to get the ball rolling.

[MikeStang]

Wow.
Well now is a good a time as any to start a project like this...Looks like from what I can see of the pictures your going to need at a minimum to replace the following.
One maby both quarter panels, or you can remove patches and put in new metal, but its usually best to do full quarters in your case.
Looks like the Cowl is rusted through around the lower windshield area on both sides, so either patches or full cowl, probably full cowl.
And like u stated trunk floors and floor pans, this should get you going.
There is a ton of good info on this site.
I am working on finishing up a bunch of little videos on Youtube showing how we did the quarter panel on my 69, and have tons of pics from the cowl replacement.
Also get a few cans of POR 15 and use it after you clean that rust off, but dont put it on the outside of the body, paint wont stick to it without a bridge coat, and some serious sanding. But its a great product to STOP rust in its tracks, and or prevent rust from starting.

Mike

[Pakrat]

I don't know if you subscribe to Mustang Monthly or not, if not after a few months the articles usually get posted on their website. I'm a few months behind on my reading but I think it was the December or January issue that they had a ridiculously low mile (like 52 or something) all orignal 69 Mach featured and you can't get a better look at how something is supposed to be than that. Concourse restored is of course the next best thing but nothing tops original, especially never driven original.

Also, here's a nice little link with tons of eye candy on a gold winning concourse restoration as well, if you haven't stumbled across it yet it's worth a look and a great reference for the "supposed to" look. http://photos.mustangsbymike.com/Mach-1-Candy-Apple-Red

[rainingbells]

Wow.

Okay, between you and Wade I'm gonna put my foot down now and say you guys need to not make that a habitual opening when talking about my car. Especially considering that's pretty much the first word out of my wife's mouth when I wheeled it into the garage and she wandered out to finally take a look at it live and in person. Though with her it was followed by "hon". "Wow, hon." I'm liable to develop a complex or something. :tongue_smilie:

Though in all fairness, her brother has had a 1967 rolling Camaro sitting in his garage for 15 years.

Well now is a good a time as any to start a project like this...

Plenty of time. Money...eh...but I'll make due how I can. I'm years into gutterpunking and DIY'ing things. Like I said, if I can borrow equipment from people in exchange for giving them my hands on their projects, groovy, then I can spend cash on parts instead of equipment. Yes, eventually I will need to own the equipment, but if I can hold off on it then great. Otherwise it will be pick-and-choose until next tax season. Like, I expect, it is with most everyone else. Some people, money is no object. Me, money is an issue. I don't want a perfect `69, I want to make sure it's safe and solid. Perfect doesn't matter to me.

Already talked to the wife and she said I could spend pretty much all next tax year's cash on "Elle" if I don't make a whole lot of headway between now and then.

On the NPD downloadable catalog I've cart'ed about 1500 in trunk, floor, carpet, and dash whatnot. I still think I can save all the little tiny punch-throughs on my quarters with a MIG, if I can get my hands on one. But since I can rent a compressor from Home Depot but not a MIG, if I'm going to spend cash to own equipment immediately, it will likely be a MIG. The compressor they said I can get for $48 per day. If I have all day to use it I can spend 8 or 12 hours to split all the pans. But I honestly think I can avoid even that, immediately, with the compressor from my buddy's dad.

All the time in the world, and limited budget. But it's the first time I've been able to get my hands on a `69 fastback in ANY condition, so I jumped. So like I said, I'll do what I can with what I have. Save a fastback.

I don't know if you subscribe to Mustang Monthly

I pick up issues every few months. The most recent issue I have is in fact the Iaccoca & 52 mile `69 Mach 1 issue. Otherwise, I think I have, like, 15 different MM website articles bookmarked in relation to 1969s and restomods in general.

Like, I have an issue of Mustangs & Fords from a while back where someone blended a `69 Mach 1 exterior and an `04 Mach 1 chassis and interior. I saw a site where someone took a `69 fastback and melded it to a wrecked `05 or `06 V6, but I didn't bookmark it, haven't been able to find it since, and have been kicking the crap out of myself since then.

Also, here's a nice little link with tons of eye candy on a gold winning concourse restoration as well, if you haven't stumbled across it yet it's worth a look and a great reference for the "supposed to" look. http://photos.mustangsbymike.com/Mach-1-Candy-Apple-Red

Thank you for the latest addition to my `69 rebuild bookmarks. Mostly my interest is the undercarriage. Making sure the rails are OK. I know it's all part of the frame, the body, but I'm more comfortable with the panels being mucked up than the rails or the box. Though my other friend's son-in-law and I measured cap-to-cap the other night and all seemed right and proper. Didn't seem like the frame was diamoned up or anything.

These are the at-home-in-the-garage photos last week. Before the rest of the parts came home last Sunday. Some after I cleaned out some of the sand from the blasting and a bit of the rust fragments. You get a better look in general, and at higher rez, too. I'm thinking I'm going to start with the rear end and replace the trunk pans, rear inner and outer wells, and MAYBE quarter skins as well. After that I'll move forward through the interior and dash and toward the engine.

The last couple are me working down to metal on the right the quarter, through, like, 3 sets of paint + filler and hidden layer 1 rust halos. And the thing is that there's a LOT of filler for what are actually minor dents. Like...a single slather of filler to cover four or five small dents instead of controlled individual filler applications.

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/

[Fordrevhead]

$48 a day? I got my 80 gallon two stage 175 psi vertical for $400 only slightly used! Most used tool in the shop! No offense, but I wouldnt bother with carpet, etc in the shopping cart yet... unless you're just trying to set a budget. Start with the tools and all of the replacement metal.

[Pakrat]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, even though the finish items are the fun stuff, don't tie your money up now on things that you may not even get around to installing for years. Trust me, I know where of I speak. When my car got totalled I planned on a 1-2 year restoration and I pretty much had unlimited funds once the insurance came in. Life throws you curve balls though and here I am now 6 years later and only 75% done. My wife would be alot more patient if she had the other spare bedroom back instead of it being used for part storage.

As for the compressor, this may not be the biggest or badest but it has been more than sufficent to date for a one man show. Cambell Hausfeld makes these for Home Depot under the Husky name and I got all you see for $235. I've added a few more tools since like a sand blaster and cut off tool to name a few but I had all I needed at first and even used the spray guns to redo my deck. I honestly don't know how I got by so many years without one and defnitely plan to upgrade to something bigger in the near future.

http://www.1969stang.com/albums/Car-and-tech-pics/100_0100.jpg

[rainingbells]

Nodnod. Mostly I was just starting an overall shopping list to get a general idea, and that was about as far as I got before my brain started to swell from looking at all the parts in the catalog.

After a little bit of initial panic and a couple of shots, all was much better.

Another person who might end up helping came by today.

Agreed, I really should bite the bullet and lay hands on the tools.

First order of business, however, is to organize the garage. I had almost everything pulled out of there, in the attic, or against the wall other than the car. Enough room to still get either my other car or the wife's in if need be. Then the rest of the parts arrived, and now I have almost no room to walk around in there anymore. Figure I'll get some hooks and pegs for suspending scoop inserts and chrome from the wall or the ceiling. I have a side shed, but right now that's mostly filled by yard tools, my son's bike, the engine stand, and the seats.

But I'm good at playing Tetris all real-life like to maximize use of space, so it shouldn't take me but a couple of hours straighten it back up again.

Makes me wish I had that gigantic 3 car garage my grandparents had once upon a time. Or my brother-in-law's mammoth, something like 1400 square feet garage.

I have garage envy.

[rainingbells]

Ok, so, I've cleared more space by getting the good 351 to school and moving most everything else where it use to be. Having broken it almost all the way down to the block, looking at replacing gaskets and bolts at the least. Otherwise, so far, it actually looks in fine condition. Anyone have a notion on building it up? Looks like the engine originally came out of a 1994 truck, but I haven't figured out how to ID what truck. However, it seems that on the top end, unless it was a Lightening, the standard 351 would only do about 210 HP. So...I want about 350, preferably 400HP out of it. Suggestions?

Back to the car, I stripped the quarters and roof between the sander and aircraft stripper, and got a good look at the actual damage. A lot of little dents, some rot that I'll weld-patch when I get hands on a MIG welder, but overall it looks good (outside of the floor pans and trunk pans). Ospho'ed, cleaned, and primered it to hold it until I can get in there. Looks like the tunnel's good, so instead of those full floors I'll likely just get the long-ways pans to put in. That should save me, like, $300. Maybe that can go towards a MIG.

[Wade]

You may want to post in the technical forum for advice on an engine rebuild. There is a discussion right now on a 351w build: http://www.1969stang.com/mustang/forum/showthread.php?t=7800

Looking forward to seeing photos as you make progress.

[unfrozen1969]

Welcome to the website

You are not alone in your quest to complete your ride. There are a number of us who are ameteur mechanics and are doing this for the love of the build. The only advice that I can give you is to take your time and do things right, do not take short cuts, as they will come back to haunt you later on. Take lots of photos and post them, these guys on line are able to spot amazing things in a photo that I has not seen in real life.

Your ride looks like a big job, but once you get it media blasted, it will tell you the true story of your car, and what truly needs to be replaced, and once it is clean from blasting, you will know where to start.

I have wanted to jump ahead so many times and start buying finishing parts, but I am still at the welding stage, replacing doors skins and floors for my 69 convertible. I am not building a concourse car, but I want it to be straight, which requires alot of time to make sure that the foundation is solid.

You are at an advantage living in Florida.

I look forward to your future pixs, and have enjoy your travels.
Bill from Canada

[rainingbells]

Thank you Wade and Unfrozen.

I want her finished, but I have a daily, so I'm not in a super mistake-making hurry. But I also don't want this to be a 5 year build. I know how I've been historically on other long-term projects. If I don't get out there and do it, I'll lose steam, and what might be a 5 year build will turn into 20 years...and I don't want to be 56 by the time it's on the road. Being unemployed, aside from class, I have plenty of time to work on the car. I can work on it 4 to 10 hours a day. I've cataloged about $550 in replacement metal just for the top of the trunk, the floor pans, new gas tank, trunk pans, crossmember, and a couple of other misc parts. I figure that's a good start, and I'm hoping that within the next month I'll have all that and a MIG welder in my garage to get going replacing those parts and patching others, plus gaskets and bolts and whatnot to, if nothing else, put the engine back together in working order, even if I haven't cranked the HP.

A few more recent pics, and how the engine was when I left it at school on Friday:

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-001.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-002.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-003.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-004.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-005.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-006.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-007.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-008.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-engine001.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-engine002.jpg

http://stormchild.com/pics/1969/2010-03-engine003.jpg

[rainingbells]

Ok, it's been more than a month. Life and all that. Including my old computer dying and the cam being completely rusted out shot. Finally picked up the hood and another transmission from the guy today.

I can probably swap parts with the other 351 I have, even though it's older, and cobble together a complete engine. The one pictured above is out of a 1996 truck of some sort and had been transplanted into a Fox body, the other one is, I think, 10 or 15 years older but I haven't looked at the numbers to know when or where it went in. What I really think I've come to want is to sell the two 351s, plus the 3 transmissions I got in the deal (two manuals and one automatic that came with the pictured 351), and dump the money into the body. Engines and trannies are worthless to me until I have a solid body to put them in. Then hopefully, by then, there will be enough of the 2011's on the road that a few of them will end up in a salvage yard and I can harvest the 5.0 or 3.7 out of one and drop it into the car. I'd love to have the 5.0 for the ci and the hp, but something seems right about the 3.7, being that the car was originally a sixer. The hp and the fuel economy from the 3.7 isn't much to sneeze at, either. I know that would be altered by aerodynamics, it should still be halfway decent. A few mods and it should be able to hold its own or better against my `05 GT just fine.

Anyway, that's a quick update. In addition it the financial bumps I'm sure everyone hits, it's just been too damned oppressively hot to get out there and spend 8 hours in the driveway working on the car. But I'll get some new pictures up in the next week or so.

Oh, and as an aside...has anyone stumbled a website where the person took a `69/`70 shell and swapped the guts of an S197 into it? I don't know whether it was an `05,`06,`07 or what...I just remember seeing the breakdown of the build on a site and didn't bookmark it and I haven't been able to find it for the life of me.

[BuckeyeDemon]

wow, just saw this project for the first time. you have quite a task in front of you. best of luck. i hope you now own a compressor!

i hope to god you don't put all that effort in your car to end up with something missing two cylinders.

[rainingbells]

i hope to god you don't put all that effort in your car to end up with something missing two cylinders.

Heh...that your vote for an 8, Buckeye?

We'll see how it goes and what offers itself up. I haven't even decided on a color yet. I just know that it's going to replace my GT as my daily.

[Ry-speeed]

Hi, welcome to the board.

Money and free time issues are holding me back currently. You said you had 40 hours a week to dedicate on the car? That's more than most of the guys on here.

I saw from the pictures you have subframe connectors alreaddy installed, as well as that rear cross member and what looks like brackets for traction bars. The subframe connectors are highly recommended on unibodys so be thankful their alreaddy there.

Oh and I just thought I'd mention I'm pretty sure your missing some sheet metal on the driver air duct area. Mine at least doesn't have the circle visible from the outside.