Project: 69 Moffat Trans Am street machine

[gjs14]

Project: 69 Trans Am street machine.

Hi to all, I’m Steven and my project is a 1969 mustang fastback and my goal is to build a 69 street T/A car. I’m right in the middle of the build and just got my car back from the body shop and will be dropping my new 351W and toploader in soon. I’m looking for any ideas or parts for sale to help my project go smooth

Parts I need: gauges, gauge bezel (I think I will be making the gauge bezel), seats (pro car/scat or R model) roll bar or cage, fuel cell, ram air air cleaner…..any parts you have for sale.


Steven.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs437.ash1/24121_1251751860330_1425529346_30534918_75406_n.jp g
picking the car up in denver CO

[gjs14]

now for some pic's of the moffat car I will be copying.

http://www.gunny88.com/images/thumbnails/photoupdates/2008photos/04-April/20080420BowdensVisit/58.jpg
http://www.motorsportarchive.com/Allan%20Moffat%20Mustang%20Oran%20Park%201972%20d. jpg

http://www.motorsportarchive.com/Allan%20Moffat%20Mustang%20Sandown%201972%20or%201 973.jpg
http://www.aussies-online.com/Allan-Moffat/images/Mustang01.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e117/roadnrally/AllanMoffatTrans-AmMustangSandownAT.jpg

[maxum96]

Hi Steven. Welcome to the forum. Do you live in Colorado? I'm up in Northern Colorado.

[69RavenConv]

Sweet. If money were no object, one of the new Boss 302 crate engines would be a nice touch.

I love the deep dish slotted mags in pic's 2 and 4.

I wouldn't add any "BP" decals for a while, though :)

[gjs14]

Hi Steven. Welcome to the forum. Do you live in Colorado? I'm up in Northern Colorado.


yes I live in Grand Junction CO

I love your 70 fastback, what did you do to get you car to sit low? I have mideye rear springs, 620 springs up front/ 1" shelby drop and im thinking of cutting 1/2 a coil (all parts not on my car but soon) also have all the other road race parts for the front and back suspension. my car is back in the body shop getting more rear fender work to get my tires/wheels to fit.

[gjs14]

Sweet. If money were no object, one of the new Boss 302 crate engines would be a nice touch.

I love the deep dish slotted mags in pic's 2 and 4.

I wouldn't add any "BP" decals for a while, though :)

yep if I had the cash I would drop a new boss 302 in or a 351c w/webbers, Allen Moffat ran a 351c from late 71 to 73....I also would love a set of the bad a$$ slotted mags from ROH. Slt has a slot mag im looking at in a 15x8 and 15x10.

[BuckeyeDemon]

any pics of the car back from the body shop? i love the old trans am cars.

[gjs14]

any pics of the car back from the body shop? i love the old trans am cars.

no I only got it back for a week and back to the body shop, im running 295-50-15 on a 15x8 wheel and had some rubing so I having more work to the fenders.

I will post pic's soon.

[BuckeyeDemon]

which version of the car do you plan to replicate? the car is quite a bit different in each picture.

[69RavenConv]

yep if I had the cash I would drop a new boss 302 in or a 351c w/webbers, Allen Moffat ran a 351c from late 71 to 73...

I noticed the one pic had the stacks through the hood instead of the scoop.

[gjs14]

which version of the car do you plan to replicate? the car is quite a bit different in each picture.


im going to do the 71-72 version of the car w/ side scoops and the slot wheels, he also ran black AR torq thrust wheels in 1 or 2 races in the late 70 so I have a set of 15x8 and 2 more 15x8.5

[gjs14]

I noticed the one pic had the stacks through the hood instead of the scoop.

in late 73 he ran a 351c with stacks.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u101/Dragferret/2010_06040023.jpg

also the wheels im looking at picking up
http://image.mustangandfords.com/f/miscellaneous/slotted-dish-mags/24884359/slotted-dish-mags.jpg

[gjs14]

more pic of the moffat car
http://www.allanmoffat.com.au/again/Memorabilia/fp_mustang.gif
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh154/crocko05/72027.jpg
1969
http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo207/roadnrallythree/8e4afa66.jpg

[maxum96]

yes I live in Grand Junction CO

I love your 70 fastback, what did you do to get you car to sit low? I have mideye rear springs, 620 springs up front/ 1" shelby drop and im thinking of cutting 1/2 a coil (all parts not on my car but soon) also have all the other road race parts for the front and back suspension. my car is back in the body shop getting more rear fender work to get my tires/wheels to fit.


Thanks for the compliment. I'm also shooting for the Boss 302 look. I have to replace my rear quarter panels. Afterwards I plan to paint the car Grabber Orange with Boss 302 stripes.

The rear suspension currently has 5 leafs springs with the short one removed from each spring pack. There are 1 1/2" lowering blocks and Competition Engineering Slide-a-Link adjustable traction bars. I will be replacing the leaf springs and lowering blocks with reverse eye springs in the future. The front suspension is made up of Global West tubular upper control arms that have the Shelby/Arning drop with roller spring perches. There are stock lower control arms that have been boxed in to reduce flexing. The front springs are 620's that have about 1 full coil cut out. I actually lowered the front a little more that I wanted to. But it's been ok for the most part. The car is just a toy and not a driver. So I don't have to worry too much about speed bumps and such.

[gjs14]

maxum69

you have the 1" shelby drop and 1 coil cut off a 620 spring? I need to go lower in the front on my 69 by a almost 1 inch to give it the look of the wedge droped like all the KK cars had (Kar Kraft gave the 69 t/a cars a lower shape by trimming 25mm from the height of the radiator support panel; the engine bay inner guards were then tapered down from the firewall on each side to match) but w/out doing it. so do you think I should look at doing the 1 1/2 shelby drop to the front and cut 1 coil off?

Thanks

[Grabber70Mach]

Any Shelby drop more than 1" requires modified upper control arms. If not you will break the upper ball joints as they will be over extended.


From: http://home.bresnan.net/~dazed/suspension101


Negative wedge kit
http://home.bresnan.net/%7Eblackmustang/Mustangsuspension/Negativewedge.jpg - The negative wedge kit is a set of angled shims that allows you to relocate the ball joint on the UCA so that when doing UCA drops of MORE than 1” the ball joint does not bottom out on it self, but the negative wedge kit is not required on drops of 1” or less. The 1” UCA drop causes the upper ball joint to extent to a position near its max tolerance, however, as long as the suspension bumpers are intact it does not overextend the ball joint. By increasing ball joint range, a negative wedge kit allows you to lower the UCA up to a full 1 & 3/4” from the stock location, which is the point that creates the most ideal camber curve. IF YOU LOWER THE UCA MORE THAN 1” YOU MUST USE A NEGATIVE WEDGE KIT!!! If you do not, the UCA ball joint will be extended past its designed range of motion and separate, which will cause suspension failure and possibly an accident. Something to consider before investing in a negative wedge kit is that the benefit of UCA drops of more than 1” are minimally more effective than the standard 1” drop. What I mean to say is that the difference between a 1” drop and a drop of 1 & 3/4” is negligible on a street driven car. Many people who have purchased the negative wedge kit and lowered the UCA more than 1”point out that the difference between the 1" and 1 & 3/4" drop is too difficult to see on the street and not worth the money, in their opinion. IMHO, the only time the 1 & ¾” drop is worth the time, effort and or cost, is when the car has been built for the circle track and every possible improvement can mean the difference between a win and a loss. Also the negative wedge kit does nothing for suspension and handling by it self. I have read posts on forums where individuals left their UCA in the stock position and installed a negative wedge kit because they had the misguided idea that it would improve handling. Relocating the ball joint does NOTHING for handling its only function is to make UCA drops of more than 1” possible with out causing ball joint failure.

[gjs14]

I was looking at the kit on mustangplus.com, im going to get it.

[69boss408]

I am running a lincoln versailles rear end and 295-50 -15 fit in nice due to the rearend being narrower than stock they look nice all in wheelwell can't tell width till you look from behind.

[silverfox]

I always had a soft spot for his Brute 33 version!! Have a poke around here http://www.bowdensown.com.au/allan-moffats-trans-am-boss302. This bloke has an awsome collection of old Australian race cars. Met him on a rally one day we were in. He was in one of his Phase 3 XYGT Ford Falcon Supercars. Still in race trim with rego plates!!! He gets the cars taken to race tracks and gets the original drivers where he can to drive them and put on a show between races. Awsome!!
http://www.slotforum.com/images/Scalextric/Brut-33.jpg

[silverfox]

maxum69

you have the 1" shelby drop and 1 coil cut off a 620 spring? I need to go lower in the front on my 69 by a almost 1 inch to give it the look of the wedge droped like all the KK cars had (Kar Kraft gave the 69 t/a cars a lower shape by trimming 25mm from the height of the radiator support panel; the engine bay inner guards were then tapered down from the firewall on each side to match) but w/out doing it. so do you think I should look at doing the 1 1/2 shelby drop to the front and cut 1 coil off?

Thanks
A mate is doing the full front treatment on his 70 at the moment. Big job to do all the sheet metal work!!

[Jayru]

Any Shelby drop more than 1" requires modified upper control arms. If not you will break the upper ball joints as they will be over extended.


From: http://home.bresnan.net/~dazed/suspension101 (http://home.bresnan.net/%7Edazed/suspension101)


Negative wedge kit
http://home.bresnan.net/%7Eblackmustang/Mustangsuspension/Negativewedge.jpg - The negative wedge kit is a set of angled shims that allows you to relocate the ball joint on the UCA so that when doing UCA drops of MORE than 1” the ball joint does not bottom out on it self, but the negative wedge kit is not required on drops of 1” or less. The 1” UCA drop causes the upper ball joint to extent to a position near its max tolerance, however, as long as the suspension bumpers are intact it does not overextend the ball joint. By increasing ball joint range, a negative wedge kit allows you to lower the UCA up to a full 1 & 3/4” from the stock location, which is the point that creates the most ideal camber curve. IF YOU LOWER THE UCA MORE THAN 1” YOU MUST USE A NEGATIVE WEDGE KIT!!! If you do not, the UCA ball joint will be extended past its designed range of motion and separate, which will cause suspension failure and possibly an accident. Something to consider before investing in a negative wedge kit is that the benefit of UCA drops of more than 1” are minimally more effective than the standard 1” drop. What I mean to say is that the difference between a 1” drop and a drop of 1 & 3/4” is negligible on a street driven car. Many people who have purchased the negative wedge kit and lowered the UCA more than 1”point out that the difference between the 1" and 1 & 3/4" drop is too difficult to see on the street and not worth the money, in their opinion. IMHO, the only time the 1 & ¾” drop is worth the time, effort and or cost, is when the car has been built for the circle track and every possible improvement can mean the difference between a win and a loss. Also the negative wedge kit does nothing for suspension and handling by it self. I have read posts on forums where individuals left their UCA in the stock position and installed a negative wedge kit because they had the misguided idea that it would improve handling. Relocating the ball joint does NOTHING for handling its only function is to make UCA drops of more than 1” possible with out causing ball joint failure.

I did the Shelby Drop (less than 1") with stock springs. My car sit's a tad higher in the front than the rear (since i rebuilt the rear suspension). I was thinking of cutting about a half to one coil off the stock springs to level the car out. If i understand correctly, I don't need a wedge kit right? Cutting the spring does nothing to affect the ball joint angle right?

[maxum96]

maxum69

you have the 1" shelby drop and 1 coil cut off a 620 spring? I need to go lower in the front on my 69 by a almost 1 inch to give it the look of the wedge droped like all the KK cars had (Kar Kraft gave the 69 t/a cars a lower shape by trimming 25mm from the height of the radiator support panel; the engine bay inner guards were then tapered down from the firewall on each side to match) but w/out doing it. so do you think I should look at doing the 1 1/2 shelby drop to the front and cut 1 coil off?

Thanks


I would use a negative wedge kit as posted by others in the string already. I have Global West tubular upper control arms which are built for negative camber. I would cut no more than 1/4 of a coil spring at a time. Do not use a cutting torch. I used a die grinder with a cutoff wheel. Heat the spring up and you ruin the temper of the spring. After you cut both spring, go for a drive around the block and check the height. I did this several times before I achieved what I was looking for. And I still went lower than I really wanted to. Make sure your car has all the parts so it's at it's maximum weight when you check the ride height.

[Grabber70Mach]

I did the Shelby Drop (less than 1") with stock springs. My car sit's a tad higher in the front than the rear (since i rebuilt the rear suspension). I was thinking of cutting about a half to one coil off the stock springs to level the car out. If i understand correctly, I don't need a wedge kit right? Cutting the spring does nothing to affect the ball joint angle right?

That's the way I understand it, anything less than 1" there is no need for the shim to angle the ball joint.

[gjs14]

hood scoop placemment?
I looked at a 69 mach 1 today and the the hood scoop was 1/4 inch from the back of the hood to the back of the scoop. tomorrow Im droping off my 69 hood scoop at the body shop to have it put on but I was looking at some pic's of Moffat's car and the scoop looks like it is 2-3 inches from the back of the hood to the back of the scoop (now the back of the scoop is cut out on the moffat car and im having my scoop cut the same)

what do u all think?
http://aussieroadracing.homestead.com/Moffat9MustangLakeside.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e117/roadnrally/img009.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/29/123131770_56b46b3bfd.jpg

thanks for the help.

[ruger1]

My Mach 1 scoop is 1/4" like you stated. But remember Moffats car was a Boss 302 with no scoop to begin with, so it was an add-on. I would go with the 2" to 3" because you are trying to copy his car and not a Mach 1.

[gjs14]

My Mach 1 scoop is 1/4" like you stated. But remember Moffats car was a Boss 302 with no scoop to begin with, so it was an add-on. I would go with the 2" to 3" because you are trying to copy his car and not a Mach 1.


yep it looks about 2" from the back of the cut scoop to the hood, my scoop will be cut the same.


Moffats car was a Mach 1 and not a boss to start, all the boss 302 T/A cars are Mach 1's or R 428 fastbacks to start with ( the first 2 1969 T/A cars are 428's and all other 69 T/A cars are Mach 1's and 3 bodys in white for 1970)

[Jayru]

maxum69

I need to go lower in the front on my 69 by a almost 1 inch to give it the look of the wedge droped like all the KK cars had (Kar Kraft gave the 69 t/a cars a lower shape by trimming 25mm from the height of the radiator support panel; the engine bay inner guards were then tapered down from the firewall on each side to match)


Is there any info online about this modification? I always wondered why the Trans Am cars looked so much more sleeker from the front/side. I'd like to see what's actually involved to do this modification properly.

[gjs14]

Is there any info online about this modification? I always wondered why the Trans Am cars looked so much more sleeker from the front/side. I'd like to see what's actually involved to do this modification properly.


I will post more info and a link, it is 2 much work for me to do and I had a body shop look in to it and was around $2800 to $3k

[maxum96]

yep it looks about 2" from the back of the cut scoop to the hood, my scoop will be cut the same.



Just remember if you set the scoop that far forward that you will have to do some modifications to the underside of your hood structure to access the mounting studs and nuts for the hood scoop. If you look at the bottom side of any 69-70 Mustang, you'll see the access holes for the studs and nuts from the factory.

[gjs14]

Im only going 1 1/2 " from the back of the scoop to the back of the hood.



also Looking for a good set of mag slot wheels 15x8 to 15x10......hit me up if you can help.

http://image.carcraft.com/f/27059261+w750+st0/ccrp_1001_02_o+_stockton+slot_mag_wheels.jpg

[Jayru]

I will post more info and a link, it is 2 much work for me to do and I had a body shop look in to it and was around $2800 to $3k

Hey gjs, do you have that link? I've been looking online and cant seem to find anything on replicating the specs.

[gjs14]

Hey gjs, do you have that link? I've been looking online and cant seem to find anything on replicating the specs.

sorry I cant find the link, but look at this link
http://1970mustangvintageracer.shutterfly.com/ (http://1970mustangvintageracer.shutterfly.com/)

This car is a work of art and it has the lowerd nose job!

(This modification reduces the aerodynamic drag at the front of the car by lowering the radiator support 1". There are several ways to do this mod but I found the least obvious is to cut a wedge from the radiator support to the firewall. By cutting and repositioning the top flange of the fender, they will lay down without a kink at the cowl)

[Jayru]

Thanks! That's an awesome build!

[Thunder Kiss]

The Moffat Mustang was on Australian TV last week.
View show:
http://www.c31.org.au/episode/episode?episode_title=Gasolene-+20th+Jul&episode=7142

[gjs14]

Looks like the 69 is going up for sale, its in grand Junction CO so hit me up if your looking for a good 69 fastback.

[69RavenConv]

Looks like the 69 is going up for sale, its in grand Junction CO so hit me up if your looking for a good 69 fastback.

Bummer, you had such a neat vision for that Trans Am tribute build. I hope everything's ok.

[gjs14]

Bummer, you had such a neat vision for that Trans Am tribute build. I hope everything's ok.


yep all is good, I just had to get a boat (re-po) it was cheep for a $25K blue book boat so the 69 had to go but I'm working on a 67 mustang trans am clone now.